We may not think much about it when we say “please” and “thank you,” but manners play a very important role in our lives and communities.
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Here’s a transcript of our conversation:
Brittany: Hi, Ronni.
Ronni: Hey, Brittany.
Brittany: Today I want to talk about manners and why manners are important. So, first, what are, I dunno why I said manners so funny. I was saying manner.
Ronni: You said it very properly.
Brittany: Maybe that’s what I was doing. I was a rich, proper person. So, first, what are manners? Manners are things we do in the communities that we rule. We live by traditions we follow to show respect kindness and politeness. So, for example, if I’m sitting at the dinner table and I need the salt and I need someone to pass it to me, I would say, please pass the salt. Or I’d say, please. And then if you were to give it to me, of course, I’d say thank you. And the person who handed it to me would say, you’re welcome. These are just little things that we honestly probably don’t even think about, right? It’s just like it’s on autopilot. But these are all traditions that have been handed down for centuries. Even. I don’t know the origins of it.
Ronni: I don’t either. Actually, we can do another podcast on that.
Brittany: Hey, that actually would’ve been really fun to look up some stuff on that. So, yeah, if you’re like me, I don’t really remember learning to say please and thank you. I know I’ve taught younger kids like nieces and nephews, but I think it’s just so ingrained in us. We don’t even really think about it. It’s just these are the manners we live by. So, when I say manners, Ronni, I want to put you on the spot. What else comes to mind? What other manners?
Ronni: Well, if we’re thinking dinner table, yeah, etiquette.
Brittany: Either one. Etiquette is kind of another word for manners.
Ronni: Oh yeah, still. But I think not putting your elbows on the table. I don’t know different places. I think you grew up with different manners. So, you may have learned that having your elbows on the table is bad or that may have been okay, or it could be something where some people have different manners about whether you should wear a hat inside or not, or if you should hold the door open for someone. So, that’s interesting about manners is that there are some that are more universal, please and thank you. But there’s a lot of other manners that are more location or culturally based too, I feel like.
Brittany: Yeah, and actually I’m glad you brought that up. We are going to get into that in a few minutes, so hold that thought. But I thought that was really interesting too. So, manners are also things, I mentioned the word etiquette because etiquette and manners are sometimes used interchangeably. So etiquette’s more like, I remember I had to take an etiquette class in junior high where it’s like how to hold your fork and your spoon. And these things might sound like who doesn’t know how to hold a fork or a spoon? But this is actually cultural too. In Europe, they do it differently. From my understanding, it’s not dramatically different. There’s only so many ways you can hold a fork. But you know then you go to some of the Asian countries and they use chopsticks, right? There’s just these different things. It’s very interesting. So, you mentioned holding the doormen opening or opening doors and holding them open for women, apologizing when you’ve done something wrong. That’s another example of a manner. And I think sometimes we don’t do that enough these days saying, bless you after you sneeze, which I’m sure we’ve all heard where that origin is. And it’s funny, I don’t know that I’ve ever Googled this. Maybe I have where they said, bless you. They thought it was like your soul trying to escape. Have you heard this?
Ronni: I’ve heard, yeah. Maybe not your soul trying to escape, but it was like, I dunno, like a devil in you. Yeah, something like that.
Brittany: But It’s a good point because it brings back to these not only being cultural, but some of them being religious in nature. They just have these different origins. These are things that were important to them at the time. And I know that sounds silly. Why would they think a demon was trying to get into your soul? Was trying to learn, keep in mind this was the era, or even before the era where people were scared of cameras when they first came out because they thought that a camera was going to steal your shirt.
Ronni: After their soul. Yeah.
Brittany: Yeah. Isn’t that crazy? And we look at that now, we’re like, well, that’s the silliest thing ever.
Ronni: Well, isn’t the same thing about mirrors. I think I’ve read that too, that mirrors at first were also evil somehow because they were, how are you in the mirror too?
Brittany: Okay. Yeah. Okay. That could be freaky if you’ve never seen that. I mean, I guess you would’ve seen your reflection in the water first, but I digress. Now I’m thinking like, oh, it’s interesting. So, the school thing about manners that I really like though is that manners are actually an example of spontaneous order. And I did not plan that when I was thinking about this episode. That didn’t occur to me until I was actually doing the research for this. And granted, I’m sure there was a time where manners could probably get you executed or something if you didn’t do that, just because history is so crazy and filled with so many weird examples. I don’t know that for a fact.
Ronni: If he didn’t curtsy in front of the queen.
Brittany: Oh, that’s true. I don’t think you’d be killed, but something bad would happen. Now you’d just be like, British people take their manners and traditions very seriously. But it’s a spontaneous order because no government really sets the rule on manners. We don’t have a law here that says, if you don’t say please and thank you, you’re going to get arrested. You don’t have to get a license for something and say you’re going to be a pleaser. Thank you. So that’s nice. And plus like we talked about, they’re very local. So, the manners that we have here might not be manners in other places. We shake hands when we meet somebody, it’s just a polite thing to do. In other countries, it’s actually considered disrespectful. I think it’s China, you bow, that’s what you do. So, there’s just other things. Now, this one is really funny to me in some places, and I think actually China is one of them. Letting out a loud burp after a meal is actually complimenting whoever prepared your meal saying That’s how much I enjoyed it. Now if you want some proof of just how different manners are from place to place, try burping after your mom makes dinner and see how well that turns out. By the way, kids, I am kidding. I think my parents are going to get really mad at me. If you do that and you get in trouble, just don’t do it. My point in saying that that would not be considered polite here. So, yeah, good luck. Don’t do that, guarantee it will not end well. But manners are created by communities, and they’re passed down from generation to generation, which I think again is a perfect example of spontaneous order. They’re just things the community has decided on. There’s no rules about it. It’s just, okay, this is what’s polite and you do it because it helps you form a community. Nobody wants to be most people. We are very social creatures. Most people don’t want to be social outcasts to it doesn’t mean you have to conform and wear what everybody else wears and do what everybody else does. But there’s a level of kindness and exchanges we have with each other that we do because it’s good to live in a community that gets along. So that’s why I think it’s just a perfect example of something we do without government. Now sometimes things change over time, but many stay the same. Please, and thank you. I think people used to be very formal in how they addressed people like Mr. And Mrs. Whatever. It’s gotten way more laid back now, I think if people from being.
Ronni: When you grew up when you were talking to other people’s parents, was it always Mr and Mrs?
Brittany: Well, it’s funny, I was going to ask you about this. So, I grew up in a religion where we called people brother and sister. So, for adults, and because now I had friends that weren’t the same religion as me. And I would say, actually, you know what? I don’t know. So, if it were people I went to church with, we always said brother and their last name and sister and their last name only
Ronni: If they were adults?
Brittany: They were adults. Now with other people’s parents, I knew some, it wasn’t Girl Scouts, it was called Campfire Girls, which is basically,
Ronni: Yeah, I remember that.
Brittany: You don’t see that much anymore. But those were my friend’s moms and they were our troop leaders. So we called them by their first names. I think it really just depended on how well I knew the person. But I used to spend a lot of time in the South and even adults still call their friends’ parents, even grown adults, people our age called them Miss and then their first name. So, if are friends.
Ronni: I was going to ask because I grew up in Texas and I only ever called friends’ parents, Mr. Or Mrs. So-and-So, only that I didn’t know anybody who didn’t call friends’ parents, Mr. Smith or Mrs. Johnson. I really just thought that was what everyone did. And so then I moved out to California and I had kids, and the first time it was, oh, what do I teach my kids to call these other friends? Because the idea of thinking, oh, this is my friend Jason. My kid is not going to call a grown adult by their first name. And so I ended up settled.
Brittany: No, but what did you guys do? Because in Charleston, South Carolina where I spent a lot of time, they would use the first name, but it would say like Mr. Jason or Miss, whatever. Yes, so.
Ronni: That’s kind of how we settled. And even still with my kids, no, if someone who’s a close, close friend, usually first name is okay, but I still have our close friends will be Mr. Or Miss usually, and then their first names or even our babysitters, my kids will call the babysitter Miss Amber instead of just Amber. I don’t know. I think that just because that’s so ingrained in me that it feels weird for kids not to have some type of proper manner of speaking to adults. But that’s again, it’s the Texan in me that I grew up that way.
Brittany: It’s so funny you say that though, because I moved from southern California to Texas when I was in eighth grade and I had the opposite reaction.
Ronni: So, funny.
Brittany: Because everyone would say yes ma’am to their teachers. Oh yes. Now I grew up in California. Women didn’t like that because it made them old. And so I would actually get scolded at like if I said yes ma’am, to my mom or to other people, they would think it was me calling them old. So, it’s just funny. And California is a very kind of more appearance matters and things like that. So, that might just be the culture there. But it’s very funny. So, when I moved to Texas and teachers, everybody’s like, yes are the teachers. And I was like, why am I getting in trouble for not saying yes? I was raised to believe that you don’t call unless you’re an actual older woman. You don’t say that. So, it’s just so funny to me. And I think that’s a good example of that. It’s very cultural, not just to different countries. It varies from where you live. But also I think generally speaking, even if you’re in California, I think there was a time when you probably would’ve been more formal with how you address adults. Those things have changed. Now, I don’t agree with this at all, but there are even some people who think like, oh, men shouldn’t hold the door open for women anymore because, you know.
Ronni: Well, that was so weird for me, and that’s always been an adjustment, is because where I grew up, the guys would, if I walked into a store and there was a guy walking around about the same time as me, I would stop because I knew that the guy was going. And it’s
Brittany: Always weird when you stop and they don’t do it.
Ronni: In fact, if I had just continued walking and grabbed the door myself, it would’ve been an insult to the guy. And that’s how it was. Oh, I know we need to go on, but we’re talking about ma’am. So, I worked at a summer camp in Texas for three years, and the kids even had to call the counselors when they’d say, yes, ma’am, to the counselors. So, I’m in my early twenties with preteen kids. And that was a requirement even there. Yes, ma’am. No ma’am,
Brittany: Isn’t it? It’s just so funny. It’s so funny to me. But yeah, so back to the holding the door open. I mean, that used to be something, I remember my parents telling you, that if a guy doesn’t hold the door open for you, don’t go on dates, and then that was what you did. I still tend to think A should hold the door open for you. Now I have gone on many a date where they do not, but that kind of sticks out in my mind of like, he did not open the door for me. Interesting. So, there’s some things that do fall out of fashion for better or for worse, but now when talk about why these matter, I think a lot of people who listen to our show are people who don’t like to conform. We like to be kind of contrarian. So, why should we use manners? Just because people want us to, and I think it’s because they help us navigate our communities, but it also helps us create an environment where people are more open to what we call civil discourse. And we’ve used that term a lot. It’s like when you can discuss very controversial, very heated topics, but you can do it with respect because you’ve laid a foundation of we get along, we shake each other’s hand, we do this and that. And so we’ve created a society where you feel almost safe enough to disagree with people. And I think when our world is so much moved online and we argue so much online where you don’t have to use manners. In fact, it’s probably a place where for the most part, manners don’t even exist. So they’re not as important. People feel free to just say mean things without having to deal with consequences. And they don’t have to worry about a community member not wanting to hang out with them because they’re being rude. And I think that’s taken away from our communities and our society. So, it’s nice to have this foster, this environment of respect and politeness, my favorite professor in college used to call and tell us we’re allowed to disagree, but we had to use decorum. Decorum means like you had to do it. Don’t just start yelling. Raise your hand. Have a structured and civilized debate. Don’t just fly up the handle and let your emotions get the best of you. And I think that manners have a lot to do with that because I think it just sets this decorum this way that we should act within our community to be community members with each other. Because again, we are social creatures. And if you’re rude, nobody wants to hang out with you. That’s a natural cause of that, right? They don’t have to make a government law that says, to say please and thank you and don’t burp at the dinner table. If you burp on, if you’re taking a girl out on a date when you’re older and you burp, tell me how many more dates you get. It’s just kind of a natural consequence thing. You want people to want to hang out with you as long as they’re good people. You don’t want to make everybody like you. That’s not what I’m saying. I’m just saying, when you are polite and you do these things and you use good manners, I think people will want to be around you so much because they just know that you’re somebody that’s warm and polite to be around. So, that’s my 2 cents on the matter. Ronni, I don’t know if you have anything to add before we wrap up.
Ronni: No, I’m still thinking though that I thought the way you talked about manners being a form of spontaneous order. I thought that was a great way of tying it into all of our title twin stuff. That makes a lot of sense to me.
Brittany: Yeah, exactly. All right guys, well please don’t forget to like and subscribe, and share this podcast with your friends. And until next time, Ronni, we’ll talk to you soon. All right,
Ronni: All right, see you soon.
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